Razz betting strategies

I don't know how many people here play razz cash games, but this has come up several times with me and I don't know if I'm playing this correctly and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Suppose I have the bring-in with a 10 up and I have two cards to a wheel in the hole, something like (3 5) 10 and everyone fold except for one player who has a 7 up and completes- which he/she is likely to do with a premium hand or with trash. Since I have two cards below his up card, I choose to call.

Now on 4th street, let's say my opponent pairs and is now showing 7 7 and I pick up a card like a J, so now statistically, I am ahead with a Jack low with 3 cards to come. Normally I bet here since I am ahead and it is harder for my opponent to fill out his hand. More than likely, he will call. (Should I not bet here?)

Now on 5th Street, let's say my opponent picks up a 10, showing 7 7 10 and I pick up a 9, so I've completed my hand with a jack low, but my opponent is possibly drawing to a better hand.

Absent any information about my opponent, would you advocate
1) check-calling
2) bet-calling a raise
3) bet-fold to a raise
4) check-fold

I would probably raise and call a raise to see the 6th street.
I would assume that he only completed with 7 to steal your blind. With him getting another 7, i would assume that ruined his hand, especially w/ 10 on 5th. If you raise it would make him think about what he's hiding and be scared...plus i think the chances of picking up a better low than J, in this hand, would be very likely.

I am new to razz, so my lingo talk is not very technical. =)
I love RAZZ though....do you play on FTP?
Since you play RAZZ, do you like Stud h/l??

First off~ yes... bet with that 10, j... You always bet when you can SEE your hand beats thiers. They could have crap, and fold. Then.. You get a 9.... He isnt exactly drawing to a better hand than you... You have 3,5, 9, 10... He has X, X, 7, 10... and if he pairs again, or hits a high card, you have him... a face card is better than a pair any day. You can use a face card for a hand. One of the worst things is when you catch 3 pairs.

In your case, I would choose #2...

Now all of this could have been avoided if you had made one simple move. If I have two for a wheel, I raise unless I have aface showing. You want people to know. Hey I like my cards. Back off.

Then... They do one of three things. The fold, which says they dont trust their unders. They call, which suggests somethig like j,8,7, or a,k, 7 or 6, 6, 7. Or they reraise. Play from that point assuming they have 2 for a wheel, with 7 high to draw to.

I hope this helps!

If you had the bring in with a ten and the entire table folded save 1 then you are playing on a pretty tight table. Not sure I would have even called his initial completion. In Razz You are basically bettting your hole cards and you 3/5 is only so-so. You have 3/5/10/j/9 against ?/?/7/7/10. he is way ahead of you at this point. you understand if he picks up a 9 or better you most likely are drawing to very slim odds and you need basically runner runner to beat him. In short he only needs 1 card to beat your hand and he has two draws. you need both cards to improve your hand to beat him.

You are not behind on fifth street, so he needs to hit to get better. Bet / call on 5th makes sense. Even if he hits on 6th, if you improve to a 10 you are sitting in a good spot. If he catches bad, then you definitely bet 6th. If he catches good, you call. If you both catch good on 6th you bet and call a raise. You may end up worse, but you have to trust the odds over the long haul. Betting while ahead is good. If he had been drawing to a much better low, then you could revisit the whole hand. but 10-7 looks to be his best ending hand barring runner-runner.

No, technically he is not behind on fifth, but opponent has the much better drawing hand.So from a percentage standpoint i say he is. if i,m his opponent I like my odds unless I have Junk in the hole.

Even if he hits on 6th, if you improve to a 10 you are sitting in a good spot.

This is not the case. He is drawing to a hard ten and the opponent is drawing to a soft ten. Its a loser unless your willing to gamble he has junk in the hole or he is paired up in the hole.

As a beginner in Razz, I found the tip to play the hand only if your first 3 cards are less than 7, maybe 8 if fewer players, will keep you out of trouble.

Agree with Mhect 3 under seven is a staring hand in razz not a door card ten high fold and save otherwise u are usually chasing pouring good money after bad, ech street is digging you a deeper hole:crying

These are reasonable starting hands in razz

Razz Poker Hand Selection – Premium Starting Hands

A Premium Starting Hand in Razz Poker is – as mentioned above – one that contains all Wheel Cards. These are hands that should be played and Raised no matter your position. So, to lay it out for you, Premium Razz Poker Starting Hands are:

A-2-3
A-2-4
A-2-5
A-3-4
A-3-5
A-4-5
2-3-4
2-3-5
2-4-5
3-4-5
Razz Poker Hand Selection – Great Starting Hands

A Great Razz Poker Starting Hand is one that contains 3 cards of 7 or below, including an Ace. Again, these hands should be played, regardless of your position. If in late position, feel free to Raise and/or Re-Raise. From early betting position, Bet, Call or Raise. Great Razz Poker Starting Hands are:

A-2-6
A-2-7
A-3-6
A-3-7
A-4-6
A-4-7
A-5-6
A-5-7
Razz Poker Hand Selection – Good Starting Hands

A good Razz Poker Starting Hand is one that contains all cards 7 or below, without an Ace. You should play this hand from any position, but your reaction depends upon the Door Card your opponent’s are showing. If any opponent is showing a Door Card of 3 or below, Call from early position, but do not Raise. From late position, only Raise if your own Door Card is 3 or below; otherwise, Call. If you are showing the lowest Door Card, feel free to Raise from any position. Good Razz Poker Starting Hands are:

2-3-6
2-3-7
2-4-6
2-4-7
2-5-7
2-5-7
2-6-7
3-4-6
3-4-7
3-5-6
3-5-7
3-6-7
4-5-6
4-5-7
4-6-7

Here is something that may help with your decisions

A moderately experienced Razz Poker player should be aware of all face up cards on the table. There is a lot of information to be gained from knowing what cards the deck lacks. First and foremost is determining whether your opponents have you beat.

Let’s say, for example, that you have a great hand, but want to know your odds of winning against an opponent. If you have a 9-high hand, take a look at the face up cards your opponent has. If he is showing 3 cards higher than 9, you are guaranteed 100% to win. If he is showing a 9, plus two higher cards, you will at least tie for the win. But what if he’s showing A-3-4-6? Let’s say you have A-2-2-5-7-7-9. In order for the opponent to beat you, he must have a 2, 5, 7 or 8. Now let’s check the board. We know that two 2s and two 7s are gone (they’re in your hand). Can we find the other 2s and 7s, along with the 5s and 8s? The more you see on the table, the less chance this guy has of beating you.

Another very important aspect of watching the board is being able to remember what cards were folded. As you become more in tune with watching the board, it will become easier to keep a count of all important (Low) cards that were showing, but later folded.
Intermediate Razz Poker Strategy – Drawing Dead

Using the same board-observing Razz Poker strategy above, we can also determine if a hand is drawing dead. For example, if you are holding A-2-4-5-T-Q, you’re going to need one more low card. That card cannot be an Ace, 2, 4 or 5. So, by counting the cards on the board, and those that may have been Folded, we can determine how likely you are to receive a good, low card.:thumbsup

As a beginner in Razz, I found the tip to play the hand only if your first 3 cards are less than 7, maybe 8 if fewer players, will keep you out of trouble.

If you only played "premium" hands 8 and below, you would be playing about an average of 1 out of ten hands. 7 and below would be less than that. Late action blinds will eat you alive and you will finish upper mid-field finding you are getting short stacked quick and will have to push with iffy hands.

Be careful with a lot of raise-reraise action off the bat no matter how good your cards are or you will have a harder time laying it down late in the action after you've caught a couple bricks or paired up twice. One raise is usually sufficient to gage your oppents strength. If he re-raises you know where you stand, call and re-evaluate on 4th street. I so often see the RE-RE-RE-raise right through 5th and by then the player behind will keep calling no matter what hoping to draw out.

If you have a made hand at 5th st say 8/5 low or 7 low by all means raise, by 6th st you will know wether or not you have your oppenent board locked and the sky is the limit if you do.

Theese tips and info has been helpful and i am going to apply them in the game i am playing now. Thanks freerollbird

Well I do have to thank all for this good advice. I
read this thread last night while I was playing at ft 150.00 fr razz limit game. A game i have joined a few times before and would finish somewhere mid pack to top half. the game only pays 45 spots for itm. what an exciting but hard game to play. Boy does it get busy towards the end. I could almost taste the money. watching the remaining players in the lobby being amongst them was a good feeling. almost loosing a few times being ss i was able to keep and play only my beast hands knowing i was good to win by watching what cards had been or where on the board. I did not make itm, But my personal best yet over 6,000 players I finished 86th. Now that I have a concept of this game which i did not a few short weeks ago. I will take it more serriously. And try to improve. I also have started to play horse to help me round out some skills. I do not want to be best at all games but would like to have some knowledge and experience with them. thanks for reading. Freerollbird

Ace, ace, 2 5, 7 9 5 is a instant fold for me

Razz Poker is a game similar to the popular 7-card stud with a twist. Instead of the highest poker hand winning at showdown the lowest hand wins. In Razz, each player is initially dealt 3 cards, 2 of these known as hole-cards, are dealt face-down and the 3rd is dealt face up and visible to all of the players. Betting in Razz is in fixed-limit format, with the amount that can be doubling once the 5th of the 7 cards is dealt.