What do you do when you know you have best hand but see draws on the board?

Last couple days it seems I've been in this situation a lot. Flop top pair or 2 pair but the flop is 2 suited or has str draws. Usually its early so if I bet enough to price the draws out (they always call anyway) that if the turn doesn't help them, I have to push to have any chance of getting them to fold, and they call anyway. And of course they connect on the river. I don't want to give them a free card, but also don't want to get knocked out. Any advice?

If there is one thing experience has taught me, it is you cannot push a flush draw out of a pot no matter how much you try. I once watched Mike the Mouth drop 4k in one hand on a flush draw. The reason is simple..odds. Any flush draw gives you 9 outs. That by itself is 36%+ after the flop. If you have paired a card as well its almost a coin flip and if you paired a card and you have an Ace it is a coin flip. So, knowing this, if you try and push you actual make it worth chasing for the pot odds. You are ahead and should bet but shoving all in is ill advised. Knowing your opponent helps in these situations but the poker community has grown so large keeping notes on players becomes a never ending task and by the time you meet that same guy on a table again 9 months later, he plays altogether differently. The straight draw has almost as good of odds as the flush draw and you will encounter it more frequently. Although the odds are less they will hit it, the odds you will encouter it are better. It is better to check the flop and bet the turn if it misses him. your Odds double after he misses the turn. He will be less than 25% to win and you can sometimes push them out at the turn. Sometimes. At least your hand has a much better chance of holding up if he does call.

The BIG question here is what to do with "the gambler". You are ahead but he pushes with the flush draw. He knows he has a coin flip, or close to, it and he's feeling lucky. Well that is a problem. I guess it all depends on wether or not you can "afford" to call. If your in a tourney and its early and your not 'pot committed' (a term I don't like cause your never committed in my opinion) you can "afford" to fold. Folding the best hand is sometimes hard but, the right thing to do in certain situations. After all the goal is to survive not double up. If in a cash game you have a little more to consider. If you are playing the right stakes for your bankroll you should be able to call him and if you lose you reload and hammer him the next time cause he ain't going to win all of them. The key here is playing the right stakes for your bankroll. Be real careful on chosing a table in cash games. You going to have a hard time making the correct call on a .5-.10 table if two guys are sitting on $50.00-$100.00 stacks. Add up the total of money on the table and compare it to your bankroll before testing those waters. Keeping it at less than 10% will keep you out of trouble.

Hope this helps.

I usually lose to that BLOODY flush!:mad:

seriously though as tallseas says the gamble is the question here!

how much you want to win or lose...also depending on whether your playing lower stakes or higher, (lower you will almost always get the chaser to call no matter what you bet)

gotta take the good with the bad, you should win but of course you won't always win....take the fact (if you shove) that at least you played right with the best hand!

I think you have to push all in. You are almost a 2-1 favorite, you will win most of the time, so you have to discourage the draw. If he calls you will most likely win anyway...so don't give him free cards, make him pay to draw!

Appreciate the advice (again) tallseas. One comment you made has made me stop and think. When you said to goal in a tourney is not to double up but to survive. I guess I always go into thinking a need to double up three times to have a chance. (Gives you eight times starting stack, most tourney's pay 10%, so you near average at bubble) So maybe I have wrong mindset. I'll try to think a little differently next time. Thanks again.

I think you have to push all in. You are almost a 2-1 favorite, you will win most of the time, so you have to discourage the draw. If he calls you will most likely win anyway...so don't give him free cards, make him pay to draw!

You have to pay really close attention here. Its not that simple. You may actually be behind in some situations. Even if you flop top pair, your opponent has flush and straight draws and perhaps overcards he is actually favored to win on a draw. you play Ad/jc get a Jd-7s-5s flop. he has 6s/4s yep you are 60% to lose!! and it can be worse.

In Omaha hi/lo this is a very easy fold. Many a naked three aces have gone down in flames.
It is harder to fold in Hold'em. But yep, I have lost bundles hoping 12 different cards do not come up on the river, and this is where implied pot odds suggest the other person should go in, because the pot will normally get even bigger after they hit their river card(more in a 9 or 10 person table than a 6max table).

Appreciate the advice (again) tallseas. One comment you made has made me stop and think. When you said to goal in a tourney is not to double up but to survive. I guess I always go into thinking a need to double up three times to have a chance. (Gives you eight times starting stack, most tourney's pay 10%, so you near average at bubble) So maybe I have wrong mindset. I'll try to think a little differently next time. Thanks again.

I think you have picked up something very useful here, I hope so.
Even if it were true that you need eight times your starting stack to clear the bubble (it isn't), that wouldn't mean you have to risk everything three times.

Far better to win a few more smaller pots and NEVER put your tournament life on the line

GL

Every day you play poker you see a "draw heavy" flop that can possibly beat
your made hand. I like the idea of checking the flop to see the "turn" if you have position but out of position I think a small blocking/defensive bet is necessary. If the "draw gambler" pushes you still have the option to fold or call.

If there is one thing experience has taught me, it is you cannot push a flush draw out of a pot no matter how much you try. I once watched Mike the Mouth drop 4k in one hand on a flush draw. The reason is simple..odds. Any flush draw gives you 9 outs. That by itself is 36%+ after the flop. If you have paired a card as well its almost a coin flip and if you paired a card and you have an Ace it is a coin flip. So, knowing this, if you try and push you actual make it worth chasing for the pot odds. You are ahead and should bet but shoving all in is ill advised. Knowing your opponent helps in these situations but the poker community has grown so large keeping notes on players becomes a never ending task and by the time you meet that same guy on a table again 9 months later, he plays altogether differently. The straight draw has almost as good of odds as the flush draw and you will encounter it more frequently. Although the odds are less they will hit it, the odds you will encouter it are better. It is better to check the flop and bet the turn if it misses him. your Odds double after he misses the turn. He will be less than 25% to win and you can sometimes push them out at the turn. Sometimes. At least your hand has a much better chance of holding up if he does call.

The BIG question here is what to do with "the gambler". You are ahead but he pushes with the flush draw. He knows he has a coin flip, or close to, it and he's feeling lucky. Well that is a problem. I guess it all depends on wether or not you can "afford" to call. If your in a tourney and its early and your not 'pot committed' (a term I don't like cause your never committed in my opinion) you can "afford" to fold. Folding the best hand is sometimes hard but, the right thing to do in certain situations. After all the goal is to survive not double up. If in a cash game you have a little more to consider. If you are playing the right stakes for your bankroll you should be able to call him and if you lose you reload and hammer him the next time cause he ain't going to win all of them. The key here is playing the right stakes for your bankroll. Be real careful on chosing a table in cash games. You going to have a hard time making the correct call on a .5-.10 table if two guys are sitting on $50.00-$100.00 stacks. Add up the total of money on the table and compare it to your bankroll before testing those waters. Keeping it at less than 10% will keep you out of trouble.

Hope this helps.

Wow i can't begin to say what is wrong with this post. Where do you play at?

You can't get a flush draw to fold?

This is absurd.

If you push you make it worth the money for the flush draw to call?

This is situational of course, but basically saying its 50% to hit a flush draw acutally a little under 40% This doesnt include the odds that your hand will win out even if the flush is hit.


Cash play vs tourney play is different or course which was somewhat covered.

Also its not like you know the person has flush and str8 draws. You have to have some sort of reads to know if a gambler would push on a draw. Hard to read.

I will agree folding the best hand maybe good in rare situations. Like close to the bubble not worth the risk. Rarely does someone know there hand is the best. Lets say that the board had two to straight or two two a flush and i have a set. Even close to bubble it would be a weak play for me to fold here. Now as a comment to the person drawing to a straight flush yeah they are real ahead, but 1. how often does this really happen, rare and 2. yeah sure top pair would be behind here but you don't know opponent has a str8 flush draw.

I just don't agree with much of what tallseas said. However, the comments about cash games towards the end are very valid. ie play right stakes, use bankroll mgmt, etc.

Poker is about the long wrong. Bet the right amount so they aren't getting the right odds. Luck can always happen. You need to get your money in when you are good and hope the cards go your way.

Most players when they see a draw on board bet there hand big. Some check I think if you have a monster you better bet it now to get paid.